AI Search 2025 How to Get Found in a Bot-First World

(00:31) Maybe Tom is going to answer that question once and for all and just put us all out of our misery. But uh but there's so much now for my own projects for clients where just like trying to see how you're ranking in AI and then ultimately what do you do about it? What's different with that in SEO? I've got millions of questions. I'm I'd imagine a lot of you do too and Thomas is here to at least answer them best as he can.

(00:58) Welcome, Thomas. Thank you, David. Thanks so much for the intro and hi everybody. I'm Thomas calling in all the way from Austria, Europe, Vienna today. Hope everybody's having a good morning, lovely lunchtime. I I'd love to learn more from you as well. So, I'll try to answer all the million questions that everybody has in today's call.

(01:21) definitely let's let's get to it. But also curious to hear your experiences, right? So I also have a few questions for all of you today. Great. But yeah, happy to dive in into the topic in in a few moments. Um, yeah. Well, well, you know, feel free to kick things off and uh share a few thoughts and and yeah, as folks here, if you're uh if you haven't been to many of these or this is your first time, then then we welcome making these very interactive. Amazing.

(01:52) So maybe first things first um let me know in the chat where's everybody calling in from. So as mentioned I'm I'm I'm team Europe. I'm I'm currently based in Vienna, Austria. It's late afternoon my end. So my coffee already stopped. Um so I'm on on the water right now, but let me know where you where are you calling from? Are you a coffee tea person? What's your what's your routine? I'd love to meet and hear some of your routines um as we kick it off. Hi Sandra. Um, amazing.

(02:22) I'm really bad with multitasking, but I'll still try my best and start sharing my screen right now to jump right into the whole topic. And I am I'm team T here. I do I've not had a full cup of coffee in my life. So, that is one of my fun. That's a that's a good fun fact. I probably have way too much coffee every single day, but that's a that's another story.

(02:49) Um maybe you can guys give give me a quick visual or audio feedback if you can see my screen if you can see my slide deck. Yeah. Amazing. So I mean David and I we've been we've been chatting a bit over the over the last few days and weeks really and I I thought a bit about the topic right AI search and what what can I bring to you today in regards to the state of AI search right I I'm sure we have many marketing marketing leaders in in this call today um who've been tinker tinkering around this big question what's going on on chatbt right and we we titled this session today the state of search 2020 25, how to get found in a

(03:27) bot first world. But if I would come up with a a subtitle for that, I probably would call it, "Hey, Chuck GBT, where did my traffic go in 2025?" Right? Um, and I think the reason the reason I would I would I would love to touch on this topic is I think many many marketing teams I've been working with in in the last few weeks and months really are are confronted with with difficult times, right? difficult times where we might be losing traffic, organic traffic from Google. We might be looking at these new era of SEO. David

(04:04) mentioned, is it GEO? Is it just SEO? How do we call this thing even in the first place, right? It's a big it's a big topic in many boardroom conversations. Um, what I'll try in today's call and I'll try to make it interactive, right? And I I'd love to come to all of your questions is to provide a few answers to a few myths that are out there when it comes to EI search, AI search visibility and what we as brands, what we as marketing teams can do to tackle that topic.

(04:37) Real quick, as a quick intro on on myself, I'm I'm Thomas. I'm now the CEO and one of the co-founders at Otlyi. Ottolei is a startup in the eye search monitoring space. And with that said, my background really is in B2B sales marketing. So for the last 12 years, I worked for startups, scaleups, lot larger enterprises, always in the B2B software as a service space.

(05:04) And the whole reason why we actually started this product um in the first place goes back to my last marketing role where I led a marketing team of 30 people as VP marketing at a company called Story Block. Storylock is a content management system. And about one and a half, two years ago, I kind of realized that I've been spending millions.

(05:26) So we as a marketing team, we invested millions in the Google ad program every single year. I had dedicated team members just doing SEO, just doing content. I would work with agencies in Europe, in the US to basically improve our organic performance because it was really the main driver of our of our product, of our revenue stream. And I kind of realized that while I've been so obsessed with Google, I had really no clue what's going on on Chat Gibbbit. And this thought kind of made me a bit nervous two years ago to not know what's going on there.

(05:56) And ultimately, it made me made me build this product, made me build and start this business in the first place. This is not about Otterly EI, but just to set the scene, what we do, we are an AI search monitoring and optimization platform. So right now we help about 5,000 marketing and SEO professionals understand search, analyze the search, and optimize for higher brand visibility and higher website visibility.

(06:28) At the end of the day, it's always about are we getting mentioned as a brand on those new channels? Is our content is our website being picked up? We have lots of data. I will also show you some data today in this presentation. um as we support Google AI of use perplexity chat ch mode is now getting a big thing Gemini and Microsoft copilot so when I speak about AI search AI search engines I will refer to those six AI search engines obviously there are others out there there's croc there's claude etc etc also have some data points there but it's primarily and please put in the chat um I'd love to

(07:04) hear that from you I would make the bold statement it's primarily ly these days about Google and chat should ch if you see that differently write a quick comment in the chat which AI search engine is important for you and your business but let's let's zoom out right why are we talking today about AI search why why does it matter why should we care right why do we care um I mentioned this in the intro already a bit right and it's probably not new news to you that organic traffic is really is really hard

(07:35) these days to acquire in the first place, right? So many of us probably see either a decline in organic traffic or at least very stagnating organic traffic statistics, especially top offunnel, mid- offunnel type search queries most often lead to a Google AI few these days.

(07:55) Um based on our own data um that we we have collected, we for example see right now that about onethird of all Google search queries in the United States lead to a Google view. The implication is quite simple, right? With an hour view being in place, clickthrough rates are much lower, organic rankings is being pushed down and ultimately we do get less traffic to our websites.

(08:21) So in one way, Google is sending less organic traffic these days to our websites. Why did Google introduce AI with you in the first place? Right? Why is AI mode now a thing? At the end of the day, Google is reacting to this trend of conversational search experiences. AI search experiences such as Chat GBT, Publexity and others.

(08:41) Jet GBT is now amongst the top websites in the world. Everybody uses it. I think I I I I have prepared here a couple of latest up-to-date statistics to put things also a bit in perspective. Google right now processes about 15 billion search queries every single day. So there are 15 billion search queries on Google, Google AI mode, Gemini, Yahawa, not sorry not Gemini, Yahweh using AI mode included.

(09:10) According to the latest um numbers from OpenI, there are about 2.5 million queries every single day on JTBt. So as we can see here, JT GBT is catching up quite quickly. But the good I think the good news for Google is it's not replacing Google, right? ex expanding the search experience for us as consumers.

(09:31) So in addition to Google um we're now using those new AI search channels as well depending on pick your favorite tool right you see Gemini getting 46 million queries every single day Microsoft copilot is a thing deepseek perplexity crow clock you see the numbers there um again let me know in the chat which which AI service you rely on the most um but ultimately it can be said search is expanding beyond Google and is getting more diversified What does this mean really for us as as website providers, as owners, right? Well, in the old days, in the old SEO

(10:06) days, if you if you would call it like this, we've been optimizing for Google, right? We've been optimizing for Google because we directly knew, okay, if we do that, we will receive traffic, we'll receive people coming to our websites. The reality now is it is it is more diversified on the search channels, but it's no longer only humans coming to our websites. It's also robots, agents browsing our websites looking for information.

(10:34) And ultimately, in some way, we have to rework our personas that we target because most likely we already have agents coming to our websites as well who consume content who who take actions based on those content pieces. And c can I just ask one quick question while you talk about all the players out there? Uh I mean just since you're based in Europe and we don't always have that perspective is Mistral like on the radar for folks right now do you see that as an upandcomer? I mean in in broader context no not really. I mean and we we do have we actually did some research in Apac um

(11:11) because we were curious um some of our customers were curious to know which AI search engines are being used in APAC. M to be very honest the reality is at least in Europe it is like like this right it's chat chibet everywhere people use chat chibeti that's the primary research engine yes mistrol is from France it is a local player but I mean it's not it's it's not at that scale I I don't even know the the statistics I haven't looked it up but it's it's probably quite far away even from Claude and Claude is quite far away from chat chibiti if you look at those statistics

(11:45) here yeah it's essentially that deep sea being the only uh only player outside of the US to make a dent. Yeah, that's true. I was I was actually very surprised to be honest when I looked at the Apex statistics because I I would have thought that there are much more local players in APE as well. I'll I'll drop the link in the chat where you can see the the usage.

(12:10) But basically besides China, China has dedicated their their own their own models. that basically besides China, every other country Jet GBT ranks on on top as the number one um AI search experience. So I I just posted the link there for with some AP pack statistics in there. Great. Cool. Um yeah, any anytime. So um I mean one as said right it's getting more diversified. We're looking now at um call it search everywhere optimization.

(12:39) No, it's no longer just about Google and it's no longer just about us humans browsing websites, but we also have to recognize those agents. Why? Because ultimately, and this is already possible today, right? As a web as as marketing teams, we've always been so focused on the user journey, right? This traditional journey um bringing people from awareness to conserv consideration to p purchase to retention to advocacy.

(13:04) And in a traditional search setup, right, we've been optimizing for traffic, right? We've been optimizing, trying to bring people to our website and from there on retarget them, convert them into hopefully paid um customers, paid subscribers.

(13:23) With the eye search now being a thing, a big part of that traffic is now being taken away by the search engines directly natively. Because the reality is chatbt is not a search engine. It's an answer engine. I don't go to chat GBT to then click on a link and check out all the 10 different websites. I'll find my answers there directly. I'll find if I'm looking for running shoes. I'm a runner. I'm I'm training for the next half marathon.

(13:42) If I'm looking for new running shoes, I'll basically prompt Chat Chibbit with some some questions to get some first product recommendations. Yes, from there on I might go look up those brands on Google and on their websites, but then I'm already later down that road.

(14:02) So for us as brands, it's very important to also understand what's going on top of funnel on those new search channels and experiences. So put it simply, yes, search is undergoing some fundamental change. So the big question is, okay, what do we do about it? Is it just SEO? Is it generative engine optimization? What's what's really the big difference there? And disclaimer, I don't want to be the person deciding the abbreviation. I'm not a big fan of buzzword bingos.

(14:28) I don't care really at the end of the day, but I want to show you how the tactics work out. So, let's talk first about some myth. What are some myths? What are some statements that we all see on LinkedIn that we all see on the internet out there when it comes to let's call it GEO? I think the first one of the first myth that I've heard and I've seen is well, we are already number one on Google, right? We're the first website showing up on Google.

(14:57) Why should we why should we do even something? Why should we even care? Right? It's it's the same thing for for Y search engines. The reality is it's not right. The reality is being number one on Google as a website doesn't mean you're most natural than number one on those new ARI search channels.

(15:19) Um, you can see here on the right hand side actually a a screenshot from a Samrush study where they looked at the correlation between the top 10 Google search rankings and EI citations. And if you look at that, yes, there is a correlation of 53% on for EI mode, 85% on Google AI views and only 44% on Jet GBT. meaning half, let's say half of all the the top 10 um ent entry points on on the top 10 Google search rankings will also make it into jet chbett citations.

(15:53) But put it differently, 50% are citations, websites that are not even part of the top 10 Google rankings. So most naturally being number one on Google one doesn't secure you to also be number one on chippity or be cited at all on chibi. And on the flip side there might be even a chance that if you're not in the top 10 Google rankings but you still have certain factors in place some good content on site you might show up on jetb.

(16:23) So myth number one myth number two is okay is SEO now dead? Um, is Google now is is goo Google being killed by by chat chit put it differently is AI search killing SEO no it's not SEO is definitely not that um I would say it's evolving um it's search is getting more diversified as mentioned earlier and again here's another interesting data point you might have seen this chart actually going around LinkedIn and I think it's a really powerful chart because it shows you and it might be a small chart here on on this screen but It basically shows you that if people interact with chat chbett, so that's the

(17:02) greenish color here on at the bottom. If there is an interaction on chat chubt also the engagement goes up on Google. So search is expanding. I'll start as said earlier my search experience on chat chubby. I'm going to ask give me the top five um running shoe recommendations um for my next half marathon.

(17:24) I probably get a couple of product recommendations. I'll then go to Google and continue the search journey there. So I think that chart is pretty clearly showing that Google is not that and search is is is not AI search is not killing SEO in that sense but ex expanding the user journey. Myth number three well can you even influence AI search answers? Right? Can you even influence who's showing up, who gets mentioned or what not? The reality is yes.

(17:55) I've seen it over and over again. You can optimize for brand mentions and website citations. And how it works, I'll come to that in a moment. And some I mean some of you might be thinking, well, it's only 1% of website traffic, right? Based on your web analytics, you might see 1% of your total traffic coming in from Chat GBT, right? It's only 1% of total traffic coming in from Chat GBT.

(18:21) Why should I even care? Why should I get started? The reality is 1% of total traffic doesn't mean your audience is not using Chibet, right? It just means that consumer behavior is different, right? People don't go to Chhat Chibet and then click on all the links. So measuring success based on traffic, referral traffic is only giving you a small piece of the cake, a small picture into the real user journey.

(18:44) And it's never too too late to to get on board with the eye search. uh adopting adopting this new reality uh is something I I would I would at least recommend everybody to look into be it B2B B2C one of the typical questions I've been getting is it more more of a thing for B2B versus B2C use cases think about your own use case right even in B2B um I've seen people going to chat GBT prompting whole RFPs looking for feature comparison best product for XY Z type use cases So it's basically everywhere. So let's talk briefly about how AI

(19:24) search works right because in one way those AI search engines if we think about chat chbett Google's AI mode now at the end of the day it's always a combination of two things what do I mean one chat chbet and Google utilize their LLM models right so EI mode is being powered by Gemini um a custom Gemini version as Google calls it chat GBT is powered by the different um LLM models of OpenI right so when we want to optimize for EI search and thus getting mentioned on EI search one of the first questions that we need to ask ourselves

(20:04) do we want to optimize for the LLM models to pick us up which is more of a longterm shot right I mean there's knowledge cutoff and and those type of things are a thing or do we want to optimize for citations right the reason why you'll find website citations within Google's AR mode or within JBT is not the LLM model per se, but it's the web search capabilities those platforms now have.

(20:34) OpenIt introduced web search last year in October, November, and since then it it became the most used tool, the most used icon in the Chat GBT interface. And the reason why we get referral traffic, the reason why our content is being picked up is because of th the the web search capabilities of chat chubby.

(20:58) So let me so how do we measure success now right with with all all those myths in mind? Um if you are still on on the boat well I care about this. I want to I want to optimize. Um before we talk about the optimization potentials, let's talk about KPIs and how we can measure success because the reality is this Google funnel we're going to measure impressions, clicks, traffic, conversions doesn't work.

(21:21) It doesn't work on on on AI search where it's more about brand mentions, brand influence. Are we getting mentioned as a brand? What's our share of voice? Those are the I would say the most typical simplest brand KPIs you can start tracking today on Chat GBT. And the second factor is website citations.

(21:43) So it's no longer about traffic, it's about how is our website getting cited, who is getting cited on the search. So in one way we have to forget those old website funnel those old metrics and we have to move to a more brand focused um measurement first and then it's more about yeah citations references are we used as a source of information. So let's get to work.

(22:12) How do we how do we now improve our brand and website visibility on AI search? What can we do about it? As said, I don't care about buswords. I just I let's just call it for the the sake of this presentation, GEO, generative engine optimization. Um what can we do about it? The first thing I want to show you is is is is this pie chart where we analyzed a really big data set um of websites because I wanted to understand which websites do get cited. So we're talking about the website citations which websites get cited by chat chubet

(22:52) perplexity and do those search channels and I think the chart is really nice because it shows us a couple of things. One it shows us that our brand websites our corporate websites are still very much relevant. 36% of all website citations come from corporate websites. So it's us as businesses, us as brands getting cited and our content is still very much relevant for Chat Chibbiteria as well.

(23:23) We'll talk more about the onpage signals in a moment, but I think first the good news is our websites are still getting cited on CHBT and the ISO. But then there's a second big piece here. 29% news and media. So lots of publisher sites. I mean OpenI by now has big deals with all the big publishers of the world. But think about your trade media.

(23:46) Think about your local media, your regional media, think about the influencers and bloggers in your space, in your market category. There's a big tendency, I would say, especially on Chat GBT towards editorial news and media content. Content freshness matters, I would say, for Chat GBT more than for Google. While on Google, we all have learned about um domain authority and how important it is to build up our domain authority to have a strong domain um that is a trust signal to Google. I would say that's less of a thing for chat GBT.

(24:21) So we also see a tendency towards smaller websites with less domain authority outranking bigger websites if they have a strong content game, if they have a strong Yeah. um media game going on here. And the last the third pie chart um here forums and community right 19.2%. I know you probably have seen all the Reddit bus and all the Reddit um conversations on the internet.

(24:49) what I can say based on our data um comparing organic visibility and um chat visibility on chat chbet Reddit is huge on Google don't get me wrong but it's even bigger on chat chbet Reddit based on our data is the most cited website in the world not only in the US in many many more countries of the world as well both in Europe in APAC in Asia Pacific so Reddit is big Reddit is super big on Jibiti But it's not only Reddit. You might say, well, yeah, it's Reddit forum community.

(25:22) You could have put here Reddit as a as a solo website. True, but also not true because it's in general forums and communities. So, you might work in an industry in a niche where there's some other local trade communities. Um, some of our customers have realized when analyzing the website citations in their accounts that they've suddenly see old forums and communities where people discuss about really niche topics where the content is 10 years old but suddenly it got picked got picked up by Jet GBT and it was literally invisible on Google. So again

(26:00) there's this tendency I would say that lots of those user generated content pieces is being picked up by jet chibet and other search engines and at this point uh with without without knowing too much about everybody's industry I would make the bold statement that in every industry in your industry we're going to see Reddit citations as well.

(26:26) Um, do we know I already see this question in the chat from Zara, do we know why Reddit is cited is is so often cited? Well, I think I would make two points. One, um, Reddit was used to train, um, OpenI's model, um, various models. Um, this is public information from OpenI. Um, I can also send you a link afterwards where you see that, um, OpenI used Reddit threats with more than two comma up votes.

(26:53) So, I'm not big into Reddit, but they explicitly used um Reddit threads with more than two comma up votes um to basically train their models. I think by now they also have a deal with Reddit. Um Reddit also has a deal with with Google as as called out by Earl here.

(27:15) And at the end of the day, if um chat the way Chat GBT works, it is I think is is particularly looking for an intent match, right? I mean if we have if we think in in prompt right as a user I go to chat chibet I'm looking for a particular prompt certain search query um from a from a um from a semantic relevancy engineering perspective I think a lot of good answers are actually found in those credit thr why why chat chet is citing credit so often is because it is it is trying to match the user intent of me having a certain prompt with um good good relevant content and the I think that's really the case in in some of those

(27:52) situations. But yeah, um I can send you the whole AI search study with more insights. I just want to use that. Also, if there's one takeaway for you as a marketer from from this call today, then I hope it's this one. Please do get those three things right in order to for you to get cited or even have the chance of getting cited on the search.

(28:16) Um, these are three, I would say, housekeeping factors that might hinder you right now or might hinder your website from getting cited. One, the first question is, and it might sound like a it might sound like three simple things, but they're very important. One, check your CDN and cloud hosting setting.

(28:44) So, the big question is, is your CDN, is your hosting provider allowing or blocking AI bots? When you use Cloudflare, there's a little toggle where you can turn off and turn this on. They introduced this, I think a few months ago, but there are also web hosters and CDM providers out there that do not tell you that. So, I was speaking to marketing teams who who told me they didn't know, right? They had no clue and they were wondering why is our website not getting cited and referenced on CHBT? They have good content on there.

(29:14) they've done everything right from an on-page perspective but they were not visible as a website and then they they were talking to to their hoster and the hoster basically told them well by default we're blocking all the eye crawlers um because they consume so much energy and so much traffic um for us so if there's one takeaway please check please check this with your CDN hosting provider the second factor Robert CXT default do you even allow explicitly allow or disallow access of certain bots to your website.

(29:44) Yes, big websites out there do block certain crawlers. So, I would also double check that. And the last thing really is OpenI crawlers still struggle a bit with with dynamic content JavaScript. So, one of the big questions I'm I'm I'm asking our marketing teams is do we how do you generate your content? Is it statically generated? does content sit behind lots of JavaScript embeds making it potentially invisible for um AI crawlers.

(30:15) So dynamic versus um static content checks. I I also linked here a couple of tools where you can do that but it's very basic stuff. Please do check that. Um also this is something you can screenshot or you can look at later on as well. I listed here what I believe are the most important um AI crawlers from OpenI from Perplexity and the Tropic um because the reality is there's not one OpenI bot or crawler there are three different ones the first one GPT bot is actually used to to for the training model for the training of the models right so if you don't want your

(30:50) content to be part of the training data set of OpenI you could generally block the GPT bot from accessing in your website. But if you allow the OIE search bot um which is used to trigger web search results when I as a user go to chat chubet, you still have a chance of getting cited.

(31:13) And yeah, I don't want to go into the details, but check out the the bot names later on. It's helpful when you want to make the decision. Do we want to be part of the training data set or not? So you can exclude that from from your list, but you can still include the search bots, for example. So, what are the three steps for higher brand visibility? Um, let's quickly go through that.

(31:37) Um, because I know I've been talking a lot and I also want to hear your questions and and answers to that. It all starts with the user journey, right? And if we again think about the the user journey on chatbt, it's no longer about keywords, right? We don't go to chat chet and enter keywords as consumers. We have a prompt based approach, right? And I'm a big believer that we as marketers, we as brands need to define those prompts, those topics in the first place we want to optimize for.

(32:04) It's not an easy undertaking in a way because OpenI has no Google search console. So we all love Google because it's it's giving us lots of data points, right? But the reality is there's no Google search console for OpenI right now. So we need to find and get creative on how we identify relevant prompts we want to track in the first place.

(32:22) Then obviously we want to create a baseline of our current brand and website performance. Last but not least, we're going to start with some geo tactics. If you're interested in finding relevant prompts, we have this article here on how to find real prompts from real users. There really some hidden gems in there. I I won't spend too much time on this one, but check out this article.

(32:43) It will give you some ideas on where you find relevant prompts for for your industry, for your niche. Obviously, when it comes to monitoring your brand visibility, I don't recommend you to do it manually, right? You can do it manually for sure as well to manually check.

(32:59) But when you do manual checks, keep in mind there are certain personalization factors, right? There's a memory rock on Chat Chibet and other things that that Chat Chibbit knows about you as a person. So, you will never get a objective neutral AI response. Our goal with our monitoring solution is to provide you with those objective neutral um responses. Um you can try us, we have a free trial, but you can also try other ones as well.

(33:26) Um so then step number three, let's start our geo playbook, right? And the geo playbook I think is quite simple. It's about on page. It's about on page content. We spoke about crawability earlier. Are we even indexable, crawable for those crawlers? It's about content optimization.

(33:49) Um uh without going into too much detail, I would just mention three things. Um analyze your content from a chunking perspective. There are tokenizers. The way chat chet works is is is um it basically chunks your content in different pieces. Um so it's a whole a whole lot about that.

(34:09) It's a whole lot about the content structure, the schema, structured data principles from a earned media perspective. We we already we we we already saw earlier, right? A lot of the citations come from news and media. So um you you might think that big brands have kind of head start here. Um yes, they do. So if you've done good PR work, if you made sure that you basically found as a brand, recognizable as a brand on the internet, let's say you I'm I'm sure you have a solid search presence as well. Um your brand is mentioned there.

(34:40) But what everybody can do is we can all work on our media outreach play. We can all create unique stories that are unique to us and pitch that to those influencers, to those big and small media outlets. we can all go undergo a Wikipedia strategy. Wikipedia is also cited quite often on on chatbt and those platforms. So I know it's a bit more tricky to get your own Wikipedia page, but it's it's worth an undertaking eventually.

(35:05) And last but not least, we need to spend time on Reddit. We need to we need to crack Reddit. We need to we need to see how we can activate our community in those relevant Reddit threats. I want to pause here because this was way too long of me speaking and I was not able to catch up catch up with all the the comments in the chat.

(35:25) So, I would pause here to see if anyone has any questions and happy to to enter um the Q&A. Yeah. Yeah. Who's having me answer? Because a lot a lot of folks are also doing a great job answering each other here. So, amazing. Who who's got one directly for Thomas that you can elaborate on? There was a there was a request to show step one again and also a question if uh you'll be able to share the slides after. 100%. Um sharing the slides after.

(36:04) Um step one in regards to finding relevant prompts was was that the topic, David? Um I I thought it might have been those the three steps with um yeah making sure that you've enabled access to the crawlers and things like that. But this one oh wait uh here let's do the part of the last three steps here just so the last so first line step one the first step in your G playbook that one sorry the first step in your J playbook.

(36:40) Yeah, here the on page stuff. So the on page stuff is I mean um yeah as quite simple. So to to summarize one we need to check if our website is technically crawable. We need to check in on with our CDN provider. We need to check our Roberts txt file. We need to make those decisions.

(37:07) Um, and I would recommend you to check the ratio on dynamic versus static content generation that goes on on your website, especially if you work in e-commerce. I've seen lots of e-commerce storefronts and and online jobs where basically category pages, product pages are invisible for open eye crawlers because the these sit behind embeds and certain dynamically created listicles.

(37:31) So if you have lots of that stuff going on on your website, yeah, I would I would double check that. Um that's one. The second one, content optimization. Um without going too much into detail, what you'll also find in the slide deck here, which I haven't shown you, is my GIO stack. And in this geostack, you'll find a couple of as you can see here labeled content optimizing tools.

(37:56) One is the open my to open AI tokenizer where you can add um basically a paragraph and it it is broken down into tokens. Here's a custom GPT which actually I didn't build. Full full kudos goes to one of our customers who built this custom GPT that analyzes any text any URL and will give you certain chunking recommendations on how you should chunk your website content to be better indexable on um chat GBT.

(38:22) And the last one here is a relevancy doctor tool from IP rank. You might have heard about a I pull rank an agency where again you basically enter a prompt or a URL and it way will basically um analyze this URL or based on the prompt and will semantically chunk and analyze um analyze that that URL.

(38:48) It's a really useful tool to actually see how relevant certain paragraphs are in your text for those specific user prompts. So when I when I mentioned a real brief earlier content optimization, check out those free tools. They will help help absolutely come in handy. I've been using them daily to to optimize our own content. Hope this answered the question. I see some hands raised. So yeah, Rand was next.

(39:15) Yeah. Um so first just thank you for the presentation. This is very informative. Um, I want to lead into a little bit of the the sources uh that that AI use when it's they're doing a web search to answer a question. So, you know, for example, I was just looking up an old project of mine.

(39:35) I worked on Colgate and helped them develop their oral care center, which is the largest collection of oral health articles and content um out there, but it's not showing up in the searches even though there's a huge kind of related body of work under that under that domain. Um, and instead what I'm seeing uh is a little bit of overlap between Google and Perplexity, but wildly, you know, they're not diff they're not very overlapping much.

(40:09) And this huge body of content that is really directly related to oral health is just not showing up in in either of those places. I'm kind of curious your take on why that is. uh especially given that one of the steps of that perplexity does when you put in a query is it rephrases your query into a bunch of other queries. Yeah.

(40:33) So, I mean a great great question and I've definitely seen that in in in some examples where basically our content was really ranking high top-notch on Google but literally not visible on chat ch um the short answer is I don't know exactly but I would recommend you to go through the following steps um what you can do and check one one question is how is that content being loaded into your website into the front end is it dynamically inserted or um do is is it basically proper um good HTML structure or is there lots of JavaScript on the site? So I would check the ratio of dynamic

(41:06) versus static content first. Second, maybe we do have an issue with not allowing certain AI crawlers to our website or to particular parts of our website. Sometimes we don't know that because our CDN providers block that. So again, that's kind of the housekeeping part. If those all if those things are in place, I would open up I would what I would do and I saw someone asking about this this custom GPT as well. I would open up this custom GPT here.

(41:34) Um let me pull that link in the chat. Um this is a community I said one of our customers built this. Paste in your URLs and it will tell you how good you are from a chunking perspective. Do you have proper content chunks that are recognizable for um jet GBT for example? So that's the second thing I would do.

(41:59) And the last thing, the third thing I would do is I would do this relevancy scan, this semantic relevancy scan with, for example, this tool from my poll rank that will also semantically analyze your content and will will basically show you how how close your content is with the respective search queries. um you can you can basically compare that with the URLs that you see ranking quite well on on chat GBT and you probably see better better correlation there as well.

(42:25) So those are the three four or four steps I would I would now go through in order to to answer your question on why is our content not being picked up by JPT. So is there I'm just going to build on that a little bit. Is there amount of volume around a topic that's useful or do you really want to be super optimized for the trends in queries that you're coming in? Right? So, if we have a thousand articles all on oral health, but they're kind of not really being picked up in a semantic way for the search queries, then maybe we need to look at articles that are or content

(42:57) that is directly related to the search queries coming in because the AI is still not very good at at connecting those dots. I'm not Does that make sense? I think let me get into the content strategy a bit. Yeah. So I mean I where I've seen from a correlation perspective I would say um backlinking does matter less to chat chet right so um those interlinking strategies I wouldn't I wouldn't worry too much about that.

(43:35) I would worry more about is chat GBT recognizing um this specific content and how this specific content should match a certain user intent and it kind of goes back to okay what are the user intents and how can we build those topic clusters um it doesn't necessarily need to be and I'm I'm making this up right because I got this examp this question also today if you think about all of those FAQ elements right you have you you have content pieces that cover all the different FAQs and should that all sit under one under one URL? Should that sit each single FAQ question on on a on a particular URL? The short answer is it doesn't really matter. I would say

(44:11) um if that's under one URL or um um if you have multiple URLs interlinking with each other that that should per se should not be be an issue for for chat GPT but I'm yeah I'm not fully sure Randall if I I know answered your question. No, that's that's great. Thank you. You're welcome, Karen. Yes.

(44:35) Um, I have a couple of concerns and questions. Number one, in my experience, and I have a rag solution, um, and I see that a lot. You can ask the same question even in chat GPT twice, and you're going to get two different answers. And uh in my rack solution for example, I may have a lot of similar content, but why it picks why what it picks is um is a mystery to me.

(45:11) Uh so what what what's the answer on that? I mean in search usually when you rank high you going to show up all the time. here it may answer differently in the same session especially if you're in the same session it's not going to generate the same answer consistently is that your experience as well so I would say one or two things one that's exactly why I would not recommend anyone to do a manual approach of monitoring right because it will be heavily biased by your sessions and what is stored about you and and and and the personalization factor s that go into

(45:46) chat chubby. So that's that's one. Um and um even if we take away those personalization factors, right, memory rock, um history, location, and whatnot, and you and we we've done lots of research. We even teamed up with a university here in Europe to to do research on exactly that question.

(46:12) Same query, same prompt, executed 100 times, a thousand times, what comes back? Right? And it's interesting because yes there is variation there right there's variation in in form of the text output but when you think about and when you look at the brands who get mentioned when you look at the websites that get cited if you do the same query 10 times 100 times over and over again you'll get a significant statistically relevant data set there to see okay out of 100 queries how often am I getting mentioned maybe I'm getting mentioned 90 times 95 times Maybe I'm only gettingif mentioned 50 times, but it shouldn't I think it shouldn't worry us as as marketers optimizing for chat

(46:51) chibity because we've also seen in those data sets that yes, text output might worry, but brands show up over and over again. And at the end of the day, I'm a big believer in we we have to we have to optimize for a more objective experience. And every one of us has a very personal personalized experience with chat chibeti.

(47:16) And um this yeah this this is definitely a a good thing for us as consumers but it's not something we as brands can optimize for because we want to optimize for the most neutral um experience the most neutral EIS brands taking away all of those personalization factors.

(47:36) Maybe in the future we're going to move into a direction where we can optimize for those personalization factors. But even if you think about ER mode for example, who now has access to your Gmail inbox and to your calendar, there's no way for us to replicate that on scale, right? Um I hope nobody else has access to your Gmail um inbox or to your calendar.

(47:58) So um it it's not something that we as a monitoring tool aim to replicate and I don't think it's it's it should be anyone's one's goal to replicate that on scale if that makes sense. Okay. Give me maybe everybody in this group I I I see very engaged chats. Um what's what's what's your sentiment? What what's everybody is doing right now in terms of optimizing for higher brand visibility, higher website citations? Are you already optimizing for that? Maybe on a scale of one to five, one meaning I'm not doing anything. Five. I'm an expert in this. I've been I've been doing this for for weeks and

(48:30) months. What What's everyone's sentiment? Uh give me some some feedback and and some reaction to that. Yeah, you know, it it depends. It's it's more top of mind and and having a tool like Otterly. Yeah, I find like having, you know, just any kind of dashboard like that becomes really helpful. I'm also curious, Tom, you know, because I I started just more because it's a going from passion project to work project where I'm using vibe coding more like do you think that like more and more the best practices will start getting built in and even like to the Wixes and

(49:06) Squarespaces and things like that like like like when can we start Yeah. uh idea just like flipping a couple of switches and and having access to more of this. Yeah, it it's interesting, isn't it? Because SEO tools have been rather detached from content itself, right? So there's no I don't know any any good let's say good native integration between SEO tools and and content content hubs CMS providers.

(49:34) But I think that's the exciting piece there. I think that's that's changing with EI search and I've been I mean we are tech partners of of some page builders and some CMS companies and I think um we're going to see also more analytics capabilities being built by those page builders by default into their core offering.

(50:00) If I think about Wix, Squarespace, Web Flow, WordPress and and all those CMS companies, right, I do think that um some CMS companies and I have worked in CMS companies for the last 6 years. Um they built that natively. Others will team up with companies like ours with integrations and and and apps in in that sense. But I I think ultimately one one of the things I I've been realizing over the last years is and I'm I'm a big believer in content marketing and educating through leadership content and and authoritative content.

(50:31) I've been realizing that many content teams are very detached from performance metrics. How is my content performing on my website, on Google, on the internet, but also on chatbt? And yes, I think we're going to see more integrations, but also more core analytics offerings in in those those um page builders and and tools. That's great.

(50:59) Well, uh well um also you you've been doing well not to plug utterly much, but I will say like I first started using it because you've got a twoe trial and it's just like very easy. you know, if you haven't used anything like it, then this is also something where like like I I mean, my first time was actually I was just going to give a talk on on something related to GEO and found it so helpful to have a relevant screenshot specifically for that conference.

(51:27) So, uh, I'm I'm sure you appreciate paying customers even more. But even if, you know, someone's just trying to go and and learn a bit how this stuff works. Um, you make it pretty easy for someone to just get started, try a few things, and and it doesn't take a lot to go and and at least start getting something out of it. So, so appreciate that.

(51:46) Um, any other good ways for folks to get in touch with you or, you know? Yeah. No, thanks for, for mentioning that, David. So yes, we do have a free trial. Anyone can can run a couple of queries totally for free and audit audit your website for geo readiness. And yeah, you you can find me on LinkedIn. Um I'm and let's connect on LinkedIn.

(52:05) I I'll spend way too much time on on LinkedIn. So um hit me up on LinkedIn. Um I'm an open book and I'd love to keep the conversation going. Well, well, this is great. Well, appreciate just, you know, it's fun following the side conversations in chat and and everyone uh uh having a lot of answers for each other and and great to see so many builders here and and creating so many of the things where where uh GEO and and having good dashboards for it will come in handy.

(52:35) Uh you know, uh as you have more research coming out, things like that, we welcome you coming and continuing to share that cuz we're all just trying to learn here together. So, uh, uh, appreciate you, uh, joining us and and being part of this community. Yeah. Thanks so much for the invite, David. Um, looking forward to our next chats. Thanks, everybody.

(52:54) For sure.